Sunday, October 22, 2017

INSECURITY OF LITURGISTS WHO ARE WORSE THAN TERRORISTS IN THAT TERRORIST CAN NEGOTIATE

THE FOLLOWING CONCERNS POPE FRANCIS' MOST RECENT SLAP DOWN OF CARDINAL SARAH. INSTEAD OF RELISHING IT, PRAYTELL HAS A MELTDOWN WITH A COMMENT ON ITS OWN BLOG QUESTIONING AN EDITORIAL POST! EXTREMELY IMMATURE NO?

Why are academic liturgists so insecure as betrayed by their sheer arrogance when a contrary opinion is offered?



  1. “In the controversial 2001 document Liturgiam authenticam (LA), the Holy See contravened the Second Vatican Council”
    Father Ruff, is not the epithet “controversial” an editorializing remark? Would you call “Comme le prévoit” “controversial”? “Magnum principium”?
    Also, is not “contravened the Second Vatican Council” a bit strongly worded? Your articles seem relentlessly to push the idea that those with whom you disagree are somehow all in contravention of Vatican II. 
    I realize this is a blog post and not a scholarly article, but perhaps a bit more balance is a virtue?

    1. Nope. 
      We get to publish our opinions and our convictions at our blog, Lee. You can start your own blog and publish whatever you want at it. 
      What you can’t keep doing is complaining at Pray Tell about Pray Tell.
      Further comments in this vein will be deleted.
      awr

      1. Thanks for that, Father Ruff!
        If Mr. Fratantuono and his lot have something new to say, I’m sure you’d post it and the Pray Tell community would engage it. But I’m glad you’re deleting comments that say the same thing over and over. Pray Tell is a more sane place than a few years ago! I like the range of opinions at the blog and learn a lot from it.
        rj
      2. You might want to revisit your comment about the English translation of “in primis”. While I would prefer something like “first and foremost”, “firstly” is not a “mistranslation,” as you call it. It might not be felicitous; it might not be poetic; it might not be ideal…but it is most certainly not a “mistranslation.”
      3. I agree with you, “first and foremost” would be better. As to whether the missal is infelicitous or mistaken – I think this discussion shows that translation is never an exact science, it is an art, and there will always be more than one view about it. It’d be good for all of us to keep this in mind whenever we speak about translation “accuracy.” For all that, I changed “mistranslation” to “translation” in my post in response to your point.
        awr

4 comments:

Victor said...

Why was this letter made public, or was it intended to be? If the latter, it is pretty nasty, and, moreover, would be in line with the papal rule of fear that seems to have pervaded the Vatican as some have revealed.

Terrorism or not, it is the same attitude of the "liturgists" during and immediately following the Council, and that includes Msgr Bugnigni, Gelineau, and their cohorts. Nothing has changed; these have been in hiding for a while, but are finally coming out emboldened again.

ByzRC said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

There's a schocking attack on this same commentator by Fr. Anthony a few days earlier:

at the following link: http://www.praytellblog.com/index.php/2017/10/19/liturgy-lines-orthodox-catholics/

"Lee Fratantuono says:
October 20, 2017 at 8:02 am
Father, with all due respect, what is the mission of the website? Is it solely to promote your understanding of Vatican II, and that of those who agree with you? (I.e., an echo chamber?) If so, then there would seem to be precious little difference between your approach and that of the most hardened traditionalist. Indeed, the impression given is that dialogue is possible with absolutely anyone except those who embrace fully the Church’s teachings in Summorum Pontificum.

Anthony Ruff, OSB says:
October 20, 2017 at 8:22 am
O come on, Lee, the mission of the site should be obvious by the content here and the editorial line. Surely you’re not that obtuse.

This is a site for those who accept Vatican II and like the way in which Pray Tell promotes Vatican II. That leaves a very large space indeed for discussion and exchange of ideas.

Dialogue with traditionalists and those who want to use the preconciliar liturgy isn’t really a big part of our mission, to be honest. We do a bit of that, but not much – because it’s a waste of time, everyone has heard all your arguments, and they aren’t persuading many people. If other sites want to have that mission and promote that dialogue, fine.

But we get to set our mission, not you. And our mission is to promote our understanding and to counteract understandings we think are mistaken.

We do not permit anyone – including you – to repeat the same old arguments over and over, to promote a viewpoint which is at odds with our convictions.

awr"


Ouch, implying someone is stupid, so much for the kind, pastoral approach.

Anonymous said...

Speaking of "negotiate", one thing you can' t do with the Left is that---negotiate. The Left for instance denounces Trump's support for not forcing religious-based organizations to provide "free" birth control, so women can engage in immoral behavior. Do we need to be subsidizing immoral behavior, whether it is abortion or "free" birth control? I think not.....